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	<title>Comments on: Utah School Vouchers- D. Sirmize&#039;s&#160;Take</title>
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	<link>http://www.desultorythoughts.com/blog/archives/2007/09/17/utah-school-vouchers-my-two-cents/</link>
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		<title>By: Rich Slack</title>
		<link>http://www.desultorythoughts.com/blog/archives/2007/09/17/utah-school-vouchers-my-two-cents/comment-page-1/#comment-23140</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Slack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have not been following the debate as much as others. . .  But has anyone brought up the fact that private schools have a limited capacity as well as public schools?  Each school can only hold so many students.  The cost of land, brick and mortar, and supplies to accommodate all the students with vouchers is costly.  The cost to start a NEW private school would be difficult to say the least.  Especially with as landlocked as Utah and Salt Lake Valley are becoming (coupled with ever steeper property costs).  

If I was on the board of a private school I would raise my tuition costs by approximately $2,000 as soon as the demand for my existing school began to peak.  This would allow me to hire better teachers and give them the benefits that they have been demanding.  Sure the private school will improve with increased revenue but at that point the only people that can afford the schools are the same ones that were affording it in the first place.  This, due to the fact that prices have now increased in proportion to the voucher.  This does not allow poorer families to attend private schools.

Laws of economics state you should charge the highest price that the market will bare (and with limited and costly capacity to grow Private schools are not a commodity they are a luxury good).  With a shot in the arm from government the price the market can bare is $2,000 more than it was before the voucher program.  And I doubt you will hear the Private school parents complaining.  After all they sent their child to private school for low class sizes and the Principals of the school will tell them their money is going for future improvements.  It is a budget neutral argument for parents already enrolled (i.e. no EXTRA costs will be passed to you).  So I don&#039;t really see the vouchers creating this up springing of new private schools.  Those that are prestigious will become more prestigious.  Those that do not exist will have huge upfront start up costs and will most likely be substandard to public schools as they have to cut things like health insurance for teachers etc.  Or they will be forced to rent out condemned (vacated because they are old) public schools as is the case in some Utah County Areas.  This increase in cost may not occur until seats become filled but it will, in my estimation, occur as capacity is reached.
And then what will happen?  Referendum 1A the increase in student voucher amounts to allow new private school families the opportunity to keep up with private school rate hikes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have not been following the debate as much as others. . .  But has anyone brought up the fact that private schools have a limited capacity as well as public schools?  Each school can only hold so many students.  The cost of land, brick and mortar, and supplies to accommodate all the students with vouchers is costly.  The cost to start a NEW private school would be difficult to say the least.  Especially with as landlocked as Utah and Salt Lake Valley are becoming (coupled with ever steeper property costs).  </p>
<p>If I was on the board of a private school I would raise my tuition costs by approximately $2,000 as soon as the demand for my existing school began to peak.  This would allow me to hire better teachers and give them the benefits that they have been demanding.  Sure the private school will improve with increased revenue but at that point the only people that can afford the schools are the same ones that were affording it in the first place.  This, due to the fact that prices have now increased in proportion to the voucher.  This does not allow poorer families to attend private schools.</p>
<p>Laws of economics state you should charge the highest price that the market will bare (and with limited and costly capacity to grow Private schools are not a commodity they are a luxury good).  With a shot in the arm from government the price the market can bare is $2,000 more than it was before the voucher program.  And I doubt you will hear the Private school parents complaining.  After all they sent their child to private school for low class sizes and the Principals of the school will tell them their money is going for future improvements.  It is a budget neutral argument for parents already enrolled (i.e. no EXTRA costs will be passed to you).  So I don&#8217;t really see the vouchers creating this up springing of new private schools.  Those that are prestigious will become more prestigious.  Those that do not exist will have huge upfront start up costs and will most likely be substandard to public schools as they have to cut things like health insurance for teachers etc.  Or they will be forced to rent out condemned (vacated because they are old) public schools as is the case in some Utah County Areas.  This increase in cost may not occur until seats become filled but it will, in my estimation, occur as capacity is reached.<br />
And then what will happen?  Referendum 1A the increase in student voucher amounts to allow new private school families the opportunity to keep up with private school rate hikes.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://www.desultorythoughts.com/blog/archives/2007/09/17/utah-school-vouchers-my-two-cents/comment-page-1/#comment-23116</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.utahadventurevideos.com/blog/archives/2007/09/17/utah-school-vouchers-my-two-cents/#comment-23116</guid>
		<description>Vote YES on referendum MMM! Smokey brisket. The sweet suculent sizzle of steak. The tang of ribs. Chicken melting off of the bone with the gentle, loving influence of cherry wood. The smoke from the supple mesquite making sweet, passionate love to the pulled pork. This is true joy. Vote NO on referendum 1 and yes to the LIBERAL portions of sausage provided to all those that participate in the MMM (at Tylers house).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vote YES on referendum MMM! Smokey brisket. The sweet suculent sizzle of steak. The tang of ribs. Chicken melting off of the bone with the gentle, loving influence of cherry wood. The smoke from the supple mesquite making sweet, passionate love to the pulled pork. This is true joy. Vote NO on referendum 1 and yes to the LIBERAL portions of sausage provided to all those that participate in the MMM (at Tylers house).</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.desultorythoughts.com/blog/archives/2007/09/17/utah-school-vouchers-my-two-cents/comment-page-1/#comment-23131</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.utahadventurevideos.com/blog/archives/2007/09/17/utah-school-vouchers-my-two-cents/#comment-23131</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There is a great post in the Deseret Morning News today that everyone should read written by Representative Sheryl Allen.  You can find it here:  &lt;a href=&quot;http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1%2C1249%2C695213506%2C00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Do the Math - vote against vouchers&quot;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For the record, &lt;a href=&quot;http://le.utah.gov/~2007/status/hbillsta/hb0148.001h.txt&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Representative Allen&#039;s vote&lt;/a&gt; was in the &quot;Nay&quot; category when HB 148 came before the House of Representatives on February 2, 2007.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a great post in the Deseret Morning News today that everyone should read written by Representative Sheryl Allen.  You can find it here:  <a href="http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1%2C1249%2C695213506%2C00.html" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Do the Math &#8211; vote against vouchers&#8221;</a></p>
<p>For the record, <a href="http://le.utah.gov/~2007/status/hbillsta/hb0148.001h.txt" rel="nofollow">Representative Allen&#8217;s vote</a> was in the &#8220;Nay&#8221; category when HB 148 came before the House of Representatives on February 2, 2007.</p>
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		<title>By: D. Sirmize</title>
		<link>http://www.desultorythoughts.com/blog/archives/2007/09/17/utah-school-vouchers-my-two-cents/comment-page-1/#comment-23114</link>
		<dc:creator>D. Sirmize</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.utahadventurevideos.com/blog/archives/2007/09/17/utah-school-vouchers-my-two-cents/#comment-23114</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The word &quot;referendum&quot; can be a little confusing.  Technically, referendum is defined as  direct popular vote on an issue of public policy.  They are mostly used to reverse passed policy or to recall elected officials.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To clarify- a &quot;yes&quot; vote on Referendum 1 is a vote &lt;em&gt;for&lt;/em&gt; vouchers.  A &quot;no&quot; vote opposes vouchers.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But since most referendums are initiated because of widespread movements opposing certain policies, it is common to say they either succeeded or failed. As in, Referendum 1 will likely fail to reverse the already passed voucher bill.  This is what I mean when I say I predict it will fail- that is, the popular vote will have failed to throw out the legislation.  The referendum &quot;succeeds&quot;, vouchers fail; it &quot;fails&quot;, vouchers succeed. Clear as mud?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You do not oppose or support a referendum like you would a bill, because a referendum is a generic process.  You vote a straight &quot;yes&quot; or &quot;no&quot; on it.  You&#039;ll want to vote &quot;no&quot; on it.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The word &#8220;referendum&#8221; can be a little confusing.  Technically, referendum is defined as  direct popular vote on an issue of public policy.  They are mostly used to reverse passed policy or to recall elected officials.</p>
<p>To clarify- a &#8220;yes&#8221; vote on Referendum 1 is a vote <em>for</em> vouchers.  A &#8220;no&#8221; vote opposes vouchers.</p>
<p>But since most referendums are initiated because of widespread movements opposing certain policies, it is common to say they either succeeded or failed. As in, Referendum 1 will likely fail to reverse the already passed voucher bill.  This is what I mean when I say I predict it will fail- that is, the popular vote will have failed to throw out the legislation.  The referendum &#8220;succeeds&#8221;, vouchers fail; it &#8220;fails&#8221;, vouchers succeed. Clear as mud?</p>
<p>You do not oppose or support a referendum like you would a bill, because a referendum is a generic process.  You vote a straight &#8220;yes&#8221; or &#8220;no&#8221; on it.  You&#8217;ll want to vote &#8220;no&#8221; on it.</p>
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		<title>By: AverageUtahn</title>
		<link>http://www.desultorythoughts.com/blog/archives/2007/09/17/utah-school-vouchers-my-two-cents/comment-page-1/#comment-23112</link>
		<dc:creator>AverageUtahn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.utahadventurevideos.com/blog/archives/2007/09/17/utah-school-vouchers-my-two-cents/#comment-23112</guid>
		<description>Uh.... so if I vote &quot;No&quot; then that means I want vouchers and if I vote &quot;Yes&quot; that means I don&#039;t want vouchers, right?  Wait, maybe its the other way around!  Oh, my brain hurts....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh&#8230;. so if I vote &#8220;No&#8221; then that means I want vouchers and if I vote &#8220;Yes&#8221; that means I don&#8217;t want vouchers, right?  Wait, maybe its the other way around!  Oh, my brain hurts&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah Meier</title>
		<link>http://www.desultorythoughts.com/blog/archives/2007/09/17/utah-school-vouchers-my-two-cents/comment-page-1/#comment-23111</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Meier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 00:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.utahadventurevideos.com/blog/archives/2007/09/17/utah-school-vouchers-my-two-cents/#comment-23111</guid>
		<description>You should know that if the referendum fails, the passed law will not be implemented because the people of Utah have rejected it.  It will not be a law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should know that if the referendum fails, the passed law will not be implemented because the people of Utah have rejected it.  It will not be a law.</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.desultorythoughts.com/blog/archives/2007/09/17/utah-school-vouchers-my-two-cents/comment-page-1/#comment-23109</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 22:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.utahadventurevideos.com/blog/archives/2007/09/17/utah-school-vouchers-my-two-cents/#comment-23109</guid>
		<description>I agree!  That&#039;s also my hope.

I wonder what voucher proponents have to say about the &quot;strings attached&quot; argument.  Does anyone have a good reason why private schools would be willing to take such a risk?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree!  That&#8217;s also my hope.</p>
<p>I wonder what voucher proponents have to say about the &#8220;strings attached&#8221; argument.  Does anyone have a good reason why private schools would be willing to take such a risk?</p>
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		<title>By: Instereo</title>
		<link>http://www.desultorythoughts.com/blog/archives/2007/09/17/utah-school-vouchers-my-two-cents/comment-page-1/#comment-23108</link>
		<dc:creator>Instereo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 22:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.utahadventurevideos.com/blog/archives/2007/09/17/utah-school-vouchers-my-two-cents/#comment-23108</guid>
		<description>I wanted to enter a prediction as well. I think that most people will vote NO on referendum 1, which means most people will vote against vouchers. They don&#039;t want entitlements given to an elite few, they want accountability, and they feel private schools should be a private choice for education and not publically financed. I also think many people know that where tax dollars go, eventually government control follows and they don&#039;t want the government messing with their private school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wanted to enter a prediction as well. I think that most people will vote NO on referendum 1, which means most people will vote against vouchers. They don&#8217;t want entitlements given to an elite few, they want accountability, and they feel private schools should be a private choice for education and not publically financed. I also think many people know that where tax dollars go, eventually government control follows and they don&#8217;t want the government messing with their private school.</p>
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